Value Objects - some notes

There is a controversy - or maybe a fuzzy consensus about what you should be able to do in templates. Some template engines, like Template Tookit, let you call subroutines and methods on stuff passed to the template. This is very useful - you don't need to care about turning the data into a specially formed hash that can be iterated by the template, you just pass the data there and can be sure that it can display it. But it can also be abused. I think everyone would agree that template should not for example change the data in the database, but where is exactly the limit is not clear. Value Objects seem to be a good answer, templates should work only with Value Objects.

The question is how sharply you can divide your objects into Value Objects and Service Objects. In ActiveRecord is hard to test Hevery proposes a design where the record in Active Record is a Value Object (newable in his terminology is a synonym) with no link to the repository object which would do all the database manipulation. This would work for normal attributes - you'd assign the value there on object creation - but what about relations? $user->books is very convenient, especially in templates, and it can be pure - if you know that you need the books on the user you could put them there when creating the user object. But then you'd have two kinds of objects - those with books, needed in some places - and those without, when you want to spare the additional database calls. Maybe we need subclasses of User? But then we'd need subclasses for all possible combinations of relations (users with books, users with friends, users with books and friends, ...), not to mention the mess with relations on the related objects.